Church and Gay Marriage

Tonight, I had the pleasure of discussing religion, the Westboro church, and gay rights with one of my close friends. He's the one that I go to with every religious question I have, since he is the most knowledgeable. While I may not have agreed with everything he said or believed (and he didn't agree with everything I believed, either), it was an incredibly fascinating conversation.

Me: I have some religion questions for you, if you aren't opposed to answering them.

     Him: I'll try to answer them.

Cool. Does the Bible ever say anything directly against gays?

     There's nothing wrong with being homosexual in the church. That's a common misconception. The reason that gay marriage isn't allowed is because it doesn't meet the church's criteria for marriage, because the whole point is to have children, which is impossible for them.

Ah... Okay. Have you heard about what's up with the Westboro church?

     Yeah. I heard about that today. That's just ridiculous. Those guys are doing the exact opposite of what the Bible tells them to do.

Okay. That's just disrespect. Like, I get protesting for your beliefs but that's too far. Especially with the soldiers. They died for you to be able to picket.

     I agree totally. You may not agree with the war, but that doesn't mean you can try to ruin someone's funeral. He's not the reason for that war.

Exactly. Like, be against the war, fine. Some of them are probably against it, too. But don't disrespect them. If they're selfless and loyal enough to die for you, you can be a little grateful. ... And I think God is probably up there like, "guys... No. Just. No. Wrong idea." because, I think even He would protest their crazy actions.

     Yeah those are the kind of people that use God to justify their actions. Those are the kind of people I have no sympathy for.

Yeah. Because, "spread the word, love everyone, respect me, and don't do these few things" really had to be twisted and read around to turn into that kind of hatred.

     Exactly.

Yeah. Okay. Thank you. Are you okay with gays?

     I'm not gonna sit here and hate on them, but I don't think they're gonna go to heaven if they have sex. But that's the same for everyone because sex isn't allowed outside of marriage and, like I said earlier, gay people can't get married because they can't have kids. 

Then where would they go? Just curious.

     You're gonna get a different answer for that question from every person you ask. I think gay people are judged the same way as straight people. If a straight person has sex outside of marriage, it's the same six as a gay person having sex with another man, because they're both outside of wedlock. If a gay person is truthfully sorry about it, he can go to confession and get forgiven, but if he's not sorry about it then he won't go to heaven. 

Ah.. Well, to solve problems within the religion, shouldn't gay marriage be allowed?

     No, because it doesn't fit the criteria for marriage.

What's the criteria?

     Well, when you get married in the Catholic church, you take a vow and part of that is to bear children and raise them as Catholics.

Oh... Well, does that count for the straight Catholics who can't bear children? Like, if one or the other is sterile or somehow unable? Does that mean that they're "going against" the church?

     See, that's different because they were, at one point, able to bear children.

Ah... Well, at one point gays were able, and are still able, to bear children. They just don't work together. As is with the married people. 

     Together they're never able to bear children.

But so are the infertile.

     That's besides the point, because they can still consummate their marriage. Look up Blessed John Paul II's four criteria for what constitutes as intercourse that isn't a sin.

I'll just trust you and your information. And I can see where they're coming from but... (I'm going to put this bluntly so please, don't be offended. ... ) gays will be gays. And, whether or not they're married, they will have sex. Like, why not let them marry and accept them, even if they aren't traditional, and let them lead a morally correct life? Like, give them the option to go to heaven and not face anything bad? Instead of just leaving them to the wolves and not giving them a chance to act properly?

     Gay people aren't the only ones that face temptations in their lives. Straight people face temptations, too, and some of them are able to overcome that.

Well, yeah. I know. But that wasn't my point. Why not give them a chance, within the church, to be accepted and turn away from sin? Instead of saying, "sex outside of marriage is bad. But we won't marry you, because that's bad, too."

     They do get that chance if they want it.  They just can't marry other men.

Why not? ... I don't understand that. It almost seems like they aren't given a choice.

     I already explained why they aren't allowed to. Haha.